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polaris · · 199 次点击    
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<p>Hi,</p> <p>I guess I should probably write something about my plans going forward.</p> <p>First, I obviously can&#39;t do this alone. I&#39;ve asked <a href="/u/natefinch">/u/natefinch</a> and <a href="/u/peterbourgon">/u/peterbourgon</a>, two respected Gophers to help me get started with moderation. I&#39;m open to other suggestions from the community for moderators.</p> <p>As I mentioned in the &#34;Future of <a href="/r/golang">/r/golang</a>&#34; thread, I have reached out to the mods of <a href="/r/rust">/r/rust</a> on governing a technical community, and I will be taking their ideas in account. Primarily this means trying to keep threads <em>technical</em>. This means gentle nudging when things are getting heated. Technical disagreement is fine, but do it nicely. Criticising somebody&#39;s code or ideas is ok. Attacking them personally is not. As a concrete example, consider the two versions of this particular case of technical disagreement: <a href="http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1510.3/02866.html">http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1510.3/02866.html</a> and the rewritten version <a href="http://catcode.com/comments/2015/cf20151101.html">http://catcode.com/comments/2015/cf20151101.html</a> . The second version is what we should be striving for.</p> <p>Of course, everybody has different ideas about what &#34;nice&#34; means. To some extent, this is why there are codes of conduct to begin with: to give everybody the same understanding of expected behaviour. I strongly encourage everybody to read the &#34;Gopher Values&#34; section of the Go CoC: <a href="https://golang.org/conduct#values">https://golang.org/conduct#values</a> .</p> <p>This is a fresh start for us all. Together we can keep <a href="/r/golang">/r/golang</a> an open and welcoming technical community.</p> <p>Thanks,</p> <p>Damian</p> <hr/>**评论:**<br/><br/>rsc: <pre><p>Thank you.</p></pre>BadMoonRosin: <pre><p>In all of that earlier noise, did anything actually get <em>decided</em> about the relationship between Google and this subreddit? </p> <p>I know that a couple of Googlers stepped down as mods. But I also see that the sub is still listed as one of &#34;<em>the official forums operated by the Go project</em>&#34; on the <a href="https://golang.org/conduct#spaces">CoC link</a>. I also see that the sidebar instructs people to contact Google rather than the mods if they have an issue.</p> <p>Who owns this forum at this point? Is there still any of risk of shutdown or major disruption if someone at Google changes their mind down the road?</p> <p>P.S. Regardless, thanks <a href="/u/dgryski">/u/dgryski</a>!</p></pre>dgryski: <pre><p>Yes. <a href="/r/golang">/r/golang</a> is no longer considered official. The bug to remove it from the website is <a href="https://github.com/golang/go/issues/18289">https://github.com/golang/go/issues/18289</a> .</p> <p>I&#39;ve updated the sidebar to say to contact the moderators.</p></pre>rsc: <pre><p>Please see <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5h87u6/proposal_dgryski_for_top_mod/">https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5h87u6/proposal_dgryski_for_top_mod/</a> for details.</p></pre>MALE_SHOEGAZE: <pre><p>I&#39;d just like to say that I also program in rust, and the rust community is <em>fantastic</em>. I heartily second reaching out to them for advice.</p></pre>joncalhoun: <pre><p>If you are looking for an extra mod I&#39;m happy to help out. Not sure what the process for picking them will be but I would like to be considered :)</p></pre>robertmeta: <pre><p><a href="/u/dgryski">/u/dgryski</a> congrats and apologies as is applicable, lots of work to be sure. </p> <p>Since the Go CoC is Creative Commons 3.0 -- maybe it is worth copy/paste/edit it on this subreddit directly, make a sticky with this subreddits CoC -- it can be as simple as switching the line of where to go to in case of conflict (no board email address -- the moderators / modmail instead) and you and other mods could edit and specialize it to make sense for reddit. I think this would both remove any irrelevant parts that simply don&#39;t apply here -- and be a further clarification that this isn&#39;t an official space. </p></pre>dgryski: <pre><p>I&#39;ll tweak the wording on the sidebar to indicate that we strive to follow Gopher Values, and link to it. That should make it clear which parts are applicable. The sidebar already says to contact the moderators.</p></pre>: <pre><p>[deleted]</p></pre>jeremiahs_bullfrog: <pre><p>You are now a mod of <a href="/r/golang" rel="nofollow">/r/golang</a> ;)</p></pre>dasacc22: <pre><p>Thanks, you&#39;ll do great</p></pre>tscs37: <pre><p>Great to see things picking up again, hopefully this will be a lot of fun!</p></pre>el_sagra: <pre><p>Please consider asking <a href="/u/skelterjohn" rel="nofollow">/u/skelterjohn</a> to join as a moderator, I guess this fresh start is possible also thanks to his posts during a moment of friction, I really appreciated his efforts.</p></pre>kris-nova: <pre><p>Good call on getting the golang values called out here - I think that was a really smart move, and that values are on point. Touche. </p></pre>0x4445565A: <pre><p>I&#39;m glad to see the sub reddit trying to become more of a welcoming environment. I don&#39;t know why but I&#39;ve noticed a lot of corrosive behavior in the Go community, I&#39;m glad to see the mods here trying to change that.</p> <p>I think Go is very special and I would love to have a community where people are just happy to learn and teach. For some reason some people would rather just be nasty to others. Either way hopefully the Go CoC will help with that!</p></pre>bear1728: <pre><p>Sounds great to me. Keep up the great work!</p></pre>evanbyrne: <pre><p>Holy cow the mod list is looking bare. Was expecting a couple people to step down, but not a complete exodus. Did I miss a thread with more context? Thanks for inheriting the community! Hopefully things will be less dramatic moving forward with moderation that enjoys spending time here.</p></pre>dgryski: <pre><p>More details at <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5h87u6/proposal_dgryski_for_top_mod/" rel="nofollow">https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5h87u6/proposal_dgryski_for_top_mod/</a></p></pre>evanbyrne: <pre><p>Thank you. Saw that before, still wasn&#39;t expecting everyone to leave.</p></pre>iends: <pre><p>They had to to make dgryski the head mod.</p></pre>rsc: <pre><blockquote> <p>To make the independence from Google clearer, I propose to hand my spot as top moderator to <a href="/u/dgryski" rel="nofollow">/u/dgryski</a> (by deleting all other moderators, including myself) and leave him to establish a new slate of moderators drawn from active users of this subreddit that properly represent the community here. </p> </blockquote> <p>To be clear, this morning I did just that. I deleted everyone else. They didn&#39;t leave. Only I left.</p></pre>evanbyrne: <pre><p>Gotcha. Thanks for spelling that out for me. Definitely missed the part about deleting other moderators.</p></pre>schoenobates: <pre><p>Thanks <a href="/u/dgryski" rel="nofollow">/u/dgryski</a></p></pre>caseynashvegas: <pre><p>Thanks <a href="/u/dgryski" rel="nofollow">/u/dgryski</a> for volunteering for this responsibility and for giving your time to the community. I&#39;m hoping this can be a thriving community and I am glad to be a part of it. </p></pre>heraclmene: <pre><p>Excellent. Really excited for the future of this subreddit. </p></pre>torie_anal_gerbiler: <pre><p>Thanks for posting this. I&#39;m not a great coder, and i&#39;d be reluctant to share code if someone personally attacked me, the second version is a constructive criticism, a person could learn from that without feeling like a terrible human being. :)</p></pre>zer0t3ch: <pre><p>Lemme know if you need a hand moderating, I&#39;ve got sufficient experience. </p></pre>knotdjb: <pre><p>Good job <a href="/u/dgryski" rel="nofollow">/u/dgryski</a>. I said this before but I think you should also consider inviting <a href="/u/fuzxxl" rel="nofollow">/u/fuzxxl</a> - <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5h87u6/proposal_dgryski_for_top_mod/dayn07p/" rel="nofollow">he said he would accept any nomination</a>. He&#39;s the moderator of similar sized community at <a href="/r/c_programming" rel="nofollow">/r/c_programming</a> and frequents here. He&#39;s done a fairly seamless job.</p></pre>Decateron: <pre><p>I personally think that Linus&#39; rant is way more effective than the rewritten version, though I think few people have earned the right to speak that harshly. That certainly is a lesson that programmer and many others will never forget. I&#39;m sure if Linus made the second comment the problem would be repeated again and again.</p></pre>rsc: <pre><p>I disagree. You never earn the right to belittle others.</p></pre>Decateron: <pre><p>Maybe I just tend to not take these sort of things as personally as some, but I see it more as belittling the code than the coder. If someone calls out my code as shit, it just motivates me to write better code.</p></pre>nate510: <pre><p>I can certainly appreciate a good Linus rant. I&#39;ve read a few of them. </p> <p>However, I would be ashamed of myself if I lashed out at one of my developers the way he tends to. It&#39;s not the kind of behavior that belongs in a public developer community, no matter who is doing the speaking.</p></pre>gohacker: <pre><p>Nitpick: please, do not add a period (full stop) at the end of your titles (headlines).</p> <p>Ref: <a href="http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/32884/should-i-use-a-period-at-the-end-of-a-headline" rel="nofollow">http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/32884/should-i-use-a-period-at-the-end-of-a-headline</a></p></pre>NeverUse-YouPromised: <pre><p>Is there any chance of getting some nicer CSS? The default blue on reddit is close enough to Go blue that the default style almost works, but it can&#39;t hurt.</p></pre>jacksonmills: <pre><p>Id rather it be phrased as &#34;allowed technical criticism&#34;, rather than an &#34;allowed technical attack&#34;. I don&#39;t really want to be a part of an environment where people can vent negativity if its disguised as a technical disagreement. ( If I wanted that, I&#39;d just stay in <a href="/r/javascript" rel="nofollow">/r/javascript</a> ).</p> <p>Additionally, attacks are often not aimed to improve; criticism is, and one of the things I have always liked about the Go community is that it really does feel like people are trying to improve one another. So, lets keep that here if we can.</p></pre>dgryski: <pre><p>I tweaked the wording to be &#34;Criticising somebody&#39;s code or ideas&#34; instead of &#34;Attacking ...&#34;.</p></pre>jacksonmills: <pre><p>Thanks!</p></pre>goophr: <pre><p>A fresh start wouldn&#39;t include the CoC.</p></pre>weberc2: <pre><p>LGTM. I&#39;m not sure how <a href="/r/rust" rel="nofollow">r/rust</a> compares with HN, but I find that HN fosters the most productive conversations of any open, diverse internet community I&#39;ve come across. That governance model might be worth considering as well.</p></pre>MALE_SHOEGAZE: <pre><p>Could not disagree more. </p></pre>weberc2: <pre><p>Really? It seems to me that things only get hairy/contentious when a political topic comes up, and I think the moderation does a good job of keeping things under control given the circumstances. Out of curiosity, what forum is better moderated in your view?</p></pre>MALE_SHOEGAZE: <pre><p>Well, I don&#39;t really frequent hacker news, because I just find it to be a very unpleasant place to visit. So, I can&#39;t really give it a fair assessment. But here goes:</p> <p>1) It&#39;s an echo chamber for the valley/startup mentality and associated ideologies. For that reason alone, I&#39;m not interested in hanging out there. I&#39;m tolerant of those view points, but I have no interest in posting somewhere that those are the prevailing attitudes. </p> <p>2) The attitude there is...unbearably smug. I realize this is not a strong argument, but fuck if it isn&#39;t true.</p> <p>Now, HN may still have a fantastic moderation policy and maybe good discussions happen there, but I will never find out because the 10 times I&#39;ve been on HN have been more than enough for me. </p></pre>weberc2: <pre><ol> <li><p>Really? I&#39;ve not really perceived this despite having been active for years. Further, I&#39;m from the midwest and I&#39;ve worked in &#34;traditional&#34; industries as well as a startup. Only once in a great while do I find anyone making valley-centric statements about the world at large. In particular, a good chunk of HN seems to be non-American (lots of British spelling or non-native-English speakers).</p></li> <li><p>I&#39;ve not been part of an tech-centric internet community where this isn&#39;t true. In my view, the distinction is that the commenters on HN are more likely to be knowledgeable about something (smug or not). Further, I guess I prefer metered smugness to the outright flaming that I see in other fora. For example, HN comments are much more polite, intelligent, and correct than <a href="/r/programming" rel="nofollow">/r/programming</a> (where the loudest, rudest opinions are voted to the top so long as they&#39;re <em>popular</em>, with complete disregard for correctness). If indeed your Internet haunts are of better quality than HN, I&#39;d sincerely love to learn about them!</p></li> </ol> <blockquote> <p>Now, HN may still have a fantastic moderation policy and maybe good discussions happen there, but I will never find out because the 10 times I&#39;ve been on HN have been more than enough for me.</p> </blockquote> <p>Sorry to hear about your negative experiences. In my opinion, it&#39;s less the <em>policy</em> than the willingness of the moderators to be subjective and moderate posts (remove posts or propose more respectful language, etc) that they perceive to be overly negative--I say this as someone who has had comments moderated a few times. I guess HN mods seem purposeful about <em>cultivating</em> a community for respectful, intelligent conversation (obviously lots slips through the cracks). But I guess your mileage may vary.</p></pre>dgryski: <pre><p>The HN commenting rules are on <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html</a> under &#34;In Comments&#34; . Not a bad set of guidelines.</p></pre>robertmeta: <pre><p>Actually really good and lots of specific annoying things called out, titles, etc. </p></pre>

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